His Hands Church
His Hands Church
Midweek Podcast - Writing the Message
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Hello Madison. Hey. You gave the message on I did, Sunday. Great job. Thank you. And you gave it with both a hat. Both a hat. And you've got this the new uh tattoo. The new fish tattoo. Yep. So uh controversial. Really? My presence is controversial in any room that I walk into. Can you imagine if you would have turned your hat backwards? I don't think I can pull that off. Well I'm not saying you I'm not saying from what you could, but I'm just saying if you would have. Like what the I don't think yeah.
SPEAKER_01Something would have happened. No.
SPEAKER_00You did a great job with the message, by the way. Appreciate it. Really, really good.
SPEAKER_01And I thought it'd be interesting to talk about because we've had some follow-up conversations about it, but even in the weeks prior, you had a message that you kind of just stopped mid-message and said, we'll finish the rest later.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we will. Yeah. A couple weeks ago. Sorry, I'm yawning while talking. My bad.
SPEAKER_01No biggie. I thought it'd be interesting to kind of talk about message prep and some of the filters that we have, and then also some of the things that happen when we deliver a message.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so in a weird way, like how is this relevant to anyone who doesn't give messages? However, um, a lot of how we approach messages, I think, says a lot about what we believe. Definitely. And I was thinking when you mentioned this as a topic, I was like, I wasn't like, oh my God, yes. Right. But it did get me thinking, like, yeah, there's probably a lot of unspoken, typically unspoken filters that very much speak to what we believe about God, what we believe about scripture and how we approach things. And we probably don't approach them in the exact same way. Sure, but I think there's the We've done a lot of planning together. Like that's a pretty normal thing. Yes.
SPEAKER_01And then there's like the the obviously the theological beliefs, but then there's just like the cultural sort of his hands things practical come out in those conversations. And so what is the point of even having a message on Sunday?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, uh people need to learn, right? Like that is a huge part of growing in our faith is learning about the God that we serve. And from from like forever, forever. This is not a new concept, you know. There have just been people who make it their purpose to learn so that they can teach. And, you know, and so yeah, it's the the main purpose is just learning more about the God that we have a relationship with uh through scripture and growing in our knowledge and understanding. You know, there's a a lot of times in scripture it talks about growing in wisdom and understanding. We want to grow as people in wisdom and understanding. And uh and sometimes, you know, for the average person, you're busy, you're doing all kinds of things in life, you may not have time to do a deep dive on this or whatever. So I I'm grateful that I have a huge part of my week is set aside to research, read, study, pray, yeah, so that I can hopefully share something that is helpful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think for all people that follow Jesus, he says, go throughout all the nations, um, baptizing in the name of the Father, whole whole Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and teaching them to do the things that I think teaching them and and making disciples, discipleship and teaching, you know, go hand in hand. And so, yeah, there's this element of like knowing your stuff enough to communicate it a well to other people, even in your workplace and everything. So I think having a Sunday morning moment where everyone's kind of coming around the same topic, same passage, same moment of truth gives them the ability to then communicate that to somebody else too. So I think it's No, definitely.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I think when I I think back to my college days and I was not at a a uh I was a very passionate believer, but I was not at a college that that was It was in interesting, kind of different than yours, because you went to Kennesaw State. I went to a small college. So it was not a Christian college, but because of its size, there was much you had much more of a relationship with your professors and your other students.
SPEAKER_01Because you shared, I mean, yeah, I don't I only probably experienced that in like the later courses.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I that was how it was from the the get-go. But it also meant that your professors would learn who the really passionate believers were. And sometimes there was like antagonistic stuff, and it was a weird culture. But my point is um I remember being really grateful while I was in college and I was wrestling with some of that, and I had a few professors that were saying things in class, and I always laughed at the fact that it didn't matter what the class was, half the teeth the professors were it's like, what does this class have to do with Christianity? Why aren't we talking about the Bible? Yeah, like you know, because they didn't they had a bone to pick or whatever. And there was a specific church in Missouri that I remember the pastor was in this series, and he was able to put words to things that I had been wrestling with, but I didn't have the confidence or or the clarity to ever communicate. So in the back of my mind, I was like, I thought about that's not right, and I don't know, but I don't know how to say it. And hearing him teach on it clarified my thoughts. And it wasn't like I just wholesale took what he said and let it be my thoughts. I was already thinking these things, but it was like, oh, okay. That's a way to put it there. That's a way to put it in there. And it grew my confidence. Um really, I think, safeguarded my heart for some doubt, maybe that would have been there. It was really helpful.
SPEAKER_01So you said a large portion of your week is dedicated to the message on Sunday. What is the weekly rhythm for you? Because I it's very odd and strange compared to the way I think and do it.
SPEAKER_00So okay. This is where people are gonna lose a lot of respect for me. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01You've talked about it on the stage. It's not like a secret.
SPEAKER_00Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It's not, but I don't think like anytime I meet another pastor and they in the conversation of like, yes, what's your message prep like? Because if you're a pastor, or in your case, you mean you're a pastor. I'm like a kind of pastor, yeah. You are a pastor. You're a pastor of smaller people.
SPEAKER_01Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Discount people. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Half-off people. The halflings. No. What is it in Star Wars? They call them younglings. Why do you just call them kids? Such a weird It's world building just the younglings. So write the message is like a giant to-do list item, and it's only one line. Right. But within that is so much. And also, just to be honest, there's a good bit of pressure with the message in the sense that we're being honest. Like let's say the message is bad. Like it's just it's bad.
SPEAKER_01What would that be?
SPEAKER_00I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I don't just I don't even know. Have you ever heard a bad message? Yes, of course. Right. But what's bad is not I think that the Lord uses obviously can use anything, but what's bad in a bad message is the person is not telling the truth. Or they're confused.
SPEAKER_00Like you Yeah, we could talk about different versions of the Trevor Burrus.
SPEAKER_01That's that's a bad message. Trevor Burrus,
SPEAKER_00Jr. So you could have a bad message that is bad because it's it's off, right? That's that's clearly not true. Or I mean you could have someone that's delivering truth, but in a way that is very self-indulgent. Like the message is a big part of the church gathering. And if if the message on the flip side, if the message was really good, but then the next week is bad, people don't go, well, last week's was really good. Yeah. You know, but it's kind of each one is its own thing. So sometimes, as pastor, you have this pressure, we're like, oh man, I've got the message, and I and sometimes it's like Thursday and I don't really have much. And oh no. Because what the thing about working at a church is Sunday's gonna happen on Sunday, we can't push it back. Um so all that to say uh bad message, whatever, haha. Like it is there is a recognition, it's not about it being a performance piece and needing to wow people. I'm not saying that, but but when I say bad, it's like I want I want it to be helpful, I want it to be meaningful, I want it to be true for sure. I want it to honor the Lord mostly, and I want it to benefit the people. So there's a lot, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And with that comes a it's a burden, not a burden of like this is crushing me, but it's a responsibility.
SPEAKER_00Correct. And it's sort of like this giant, it's sort of like for a lot of people right now, it's like do your taxes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like that, you could write that on one line item, do your taxes. And it's like, there's a lot involved with doing my taxes. And I have I feel like I have that a little bit on every week, but I love it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so we've kind of entered this season, we're actually getting out of this because you're jumping back into Philippians, but we had uh several weeks where you were kind of unmoored in terms of your message topic. Yeah, but last year and the year before, the process started with here is a section of scripture that I'm responsible to teach. What does that look like from the weekly thing?
SPEAKER_00Because the weekly thing when you don't have a set topic, yeah, when part of your process is figuring out what the topic even is, that's a whole different thing. That's a whole different thing.
SPEAKER_01But going verse by verse through the book of Matthew.
SPEAKER_00As we go through scripture, like we last we went through Matthew, we're about to do Philippians, at least the you know, you might have some you you definitely have some leeway on how much you're gonna cover. Like you could choose to only do two verses, or you could choose to do ten. If you choose to do ten, you might pick up on the main theme, but maybe not go into the weeds as much with some of the specific statements. But if you only do a couple, you're gonna like deep dive into that. So there's some some you know leeway there, but I very much prefer it when I'm I prefer going through scripture and letting the scripture dictate the topic to me. And my belief is that if you go through scripture uh uh consistently, the scripture is gonna take you through the topics that you're you're gonna need to work on.
SPEAKER_01Because we're the spirit is guiding those conversations for your church.
SPEAKER_00The people what people we're dealing with 2,000 years ago ultimately is the same stuff we're dealing with today. We just we have different lived experiences in terms of culture and technology and all that stuff, but it's the same heart needs, it's the same basic issues.
SPEAKER_01So I like that. The term for that is exeg exegesis. Exegesis. Meaning from exegetical preaching. Yeah, it's like coming from the scripture versus eisegesis, where you're saying I'm starting with this maybe felt need or personal problem or perspective that I want to preach on. Yeah. And let me Google all the verses that could relate to that.
SPEAKER_00And and both are valid and valuable. Like we've done both.
SPEAKER_01Well, it depends on no, you can do topical. I think the way you do topical preaching even is exegetical.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, when I so I'm always teaching from scripture. So I'll use your, I'm not gonna tell who this person is either, but uh years ago we had an intern. He's great, he's a good person. Okay, I still have a relationship with this guy, great. But he was young, okay, he was like 19, and he came to me in part of the internship years ago. We we don't have the same internship program anymore, but uh it was like developing a message, like you might want to speak to the kids area or something like that. And so he comes to me. This was literally a conversation. He goes, Justin, I wrote an incredible message. He said it just like this I don't have any Bible verses in it because I don't really know that. So can you like read my message and then just give me some Bible verses to put in there? Yeah. But it was almost like uh I I've got this amazing cupcake and I'm missing sprinkles. Right. Can you give me some sprinkles? And I was like, when he said that, I was like, so let's back up. Um I'm gonna go ahead and just uh completely turn your filters upside down and tell you that you don't have an incredible message. And you might have some really cool thoughts, right? But in the context of what we do, we start with scripture, say what is the scripture teaching us, and then my job and your job ultimately is how do I communicate this in a way where A, I'm telling I'm teaching the truth. I'm not just using it as a jumping off point to some cool thought, but I'm like but in a way that will be as relatable as possible to the people in this time and and and place.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's the filters I kind of have is in terms of importance. What does the text say?
SPEAKER_00What is it actually saying?
SPEAKER_01How do you bring it back to Jesus would be my second kind of filter.
SPEAKER_00And then I think of Yeah, and actually I will say you're really good at that. And that's something that I I I think I do and I I try to do, but I'm probably not uh that's one of those things that I feel like happens pretty naturally, but I would I would benefit by even being more intentional. Like you you actually many times we'll have conversations and you're like, oh, how does that relate to Jesus? And I was like, Oh, well, it relates to Jesus because of this, and you're like, Well, did you say that? Yeah, you know, and you're you're I think that's a really cool.
SPEAKER_01And that comes that comes from a filter. I think I just watched a documentary that was kind of just like years ago, here's all the things wrong with the church in the day. And they just used the example of David and Goliath. And I think the the phrase they said was if the David and Goliath uh story can be preached with the same takeaway from a Jewish rabbi like in a modern synagogue. No, I'm saying in a modern synagogue right now, right? Um, and you just preached it and they'd they would give their stamp of approval fully on it, it's like it's not a Christian message, like you're not actually connecting it. And so I've just always had that as like the filter.
SPEAKER_00And like I said, for me, I I live with the fundamental belief that the old testament is pointing to Jesus and setting Jesus up and the new and you guys actually have some language you've used in the uh what is it?
SPEAKER_01You it's either pointing to Jesus, looks like Jesus, or coming from Jesus. Right, that's kind of your filters with scripture. So that's cool. Things are either signaling toward the need for him, or it's a type of Jesus, or um uh a shadow of Jesus. There's kind of different language in scripture for it, or it's something that comes from our relationship with him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so I I believe we everything we do here is about Jesus. Uh I was just commending you because I think you do a really good job of you're you're much more like concrete in the way you think than I am. Um I think so. I'm not saying as a negative. I am much more like I don't know how to describe it because I'm not as concrete. Um so anyway, but I actually something I really appreciate about you, your filters. But yeah, preparing a message, creating a message, wanting it to be true, to teach what scripture teaches, to be relatable to people. I want it to be very I I always want things to be uh really like approachable in the sense that I don't want someone walking who walks in on the street that doesn't have a deep knowledge of scripture to um like I don't even know what they're talking about. So I try to make it as relate relatable as possible, as accessible as possible without sacrificing depth. I do believe we've had conversations about this, a couple different things. Uh I grew up and growing up, I'd say like my twenties and up for a little while in this sort of American short culture that was sort of parceling off spiritual and practical. There's this idea that, well, the spiritual stuff isn't very practical, so we want to focus on practical. Right. But actually, I think the spiritual stuff is the most practical because if we are at our core spiritual people who have deep spiritual needs that are our most important needs, and I think scripture speaks to that. Like why Jesus, why worry about what you're gonna wear, what you're gonna eat, seek first the kingdom? The spiritual stuff is the most practical stuff. And so we um you had to work through that over many years and realize that wait a minute, why do I feel this tension of like, well, this isn't very practical because all we're talking about is your spirit. Right.
SPEAKER_01And often the the challenge of the message is connecting those dots as to why the the spiritual ends up being practical.
SPEAKER_00Is the practical but very much in church culture, you know, 10, 15 years ago, I think there was this little like an almost an intentionality in larger churches, especially to sort of say, we're focused on practical things. But oftentimes what that meant was we don't really talk about the Holy Spirit, we don't talk a lot about prayer, we don't it's like, well, those are those are practical. You know what I mean? So we we very much believe all of that is that. And like you said, it's uh week in, week out. How do we take this truth, teach it? Yeah, I think something else to apply.
SPEAKER_01I was thinking about that has been helpful that you shared with me, and I it was probably some theologian that you were quoting, because I believe you said so-and-so said, so I don't remember where it came from, but preaching is the declaration of certainty. Yeah. And so uh even thinking about the true it was true.
SPEAKER_00Preaching is the declaration of certainty, and the idea there is the stage, the pulpit, the whatever word you your church uses we talk about the stage, is uh, you know, if you have the microphone, that's not a place for you to sort of air out your interesting thoughts and you know, there's a certain level where I'm like, I I've been thinking a lot about this and it's interesting to me, but it hasn't risen to the level that I feel certain enough about it that I would preach it from the stage.
SPEAKER_01Right, which is why I'm still there's not like a regular church service thing of having the stage be a time for debate or be a time for um, like you're saying, just like, oh, I don't know where I stand on this. Here's some interesting things. It's like no, it the the message portion, the sermon, the talk, whatever it is, is like here here's what I can confidently say is true about the Lord in a way that like carries the weight of don't lie about God.
SPEAKER_00It carries the weight, yeah. And now, granted, as I get older, there's there's gonna be lots of things I probably said years ago that I go, I have a slightly different underneath on it now. Yeah, it's underdeveloped, or I've I've and I think you always have the freedom to say, yeah, I've I've sort of changed my mind about that, or I've got a slightly different perspective on it. Um but I do think that waiting to talk about things until you are fairly certain of it, right, safeguards against a lot of that anyway. I can't I can't think of many things I would have taught on 10 years ago that I would say, oh, I would teach the total opposite of that now. But I can think of things like, oh, I would add this layer to it.
SPEAKER_01Which is why when we talked about topics for the upcoming like book study, uh going through Philippians, we're just going opening up our Bibles, talking, discussing it together. It's like revelation, yeah. It's like you can do a month on revelation and feel equipped to discuss it verse by verse through revelation. That would be entering into the category of do I have the time to prep for this so that I'm not verbally processing it in front of everybody. Same with like um a major prophet. It's like I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're talking about like Isaiah, and it's like, man, like it's hard for me. It's it'cause Isaiah is not even so much as like a narrative type thing.
SPEAKER_01Um I wouldn't know how quite how to commit to that. I'm not ready for that yet. Exactly. Like that.
SPEAKER_00I mean, literally it's a way of saying, I don't think I'm there yet. Sure. And that's okay. Right. And it's not like, yeah. I've taught on Revelation and I've used Isaiah a bunch in teaching, but I've never um we did what four weeks on Revelation? Yeah. And and that was uh I I spent more time prepping for those four weeks than I have. Yeah, it was a lot. So anyway, so I guess what we've done so far, it's a little bit loose uh in terms of approaches. What are some of the convictions we have about teaching? It's the declaration of certainty, it's not there for you just to sort of opine about your thoughts and here's what I think about politics and here's what I it's not what it's for. And our our main hope is that we are being true to to scripture, that we're not twisting it. Right. And that's hard because to some degree you're gonna read scripture through the lens of your own background or whatever, but we try really hard to go, what is it actually saying? Let's deal with that instead of trying to shape it into what we want it to say. Let's deal with that. And then how do we because our conviction is that this is real truth, this is the truth of God, how do we then communicate that in a way that makes sense to Yeah and draw draws people to Jesus. Draws people to Jesus. No matter where they're no matter where they're at, yeah. And can be understood by people like the deepest people in their faith, all the way to the person that's like, I've been in church twice my life, and I'm here today, and you're talking about the Holy Spirit. Right. You know what I mean? And I I actually feel like that's something that we are I mean, obviously we can get a lot better at it. Um I do think that's something we're we're good at at his hands. Um I think we we've developed those filters over time, and I've I don't hear that many people say, Man, I was lost. Right. You know what I mean? Um and a lot of that's through like we use a lot of real life examples and stories from life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's like these are all the things that happen before we even sit down to write a message. It's like you're saying, explaining our convictions and our filters and stuff. Yes. And I think the other one, the other element of that is authenticity. You shared something with me this week that I thought was really like I just had never heard you put it that way of I that you don't really use visual elements that you wouldn't, in a normal conversation, pull up the picture on your phone to show somebody.
SPEAKER_00That's a newer filter for me over the last year or so.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it goes toward how authenticity is put into practice. Yeah. Because in message writing mode, you're like trying to anchor different points in different ways, and you can go like here's this visual or this element or this song or whatever it is. But it's like yeah, that wouldn't be authentic if in a moment you wouldn't pull up that same picture or play that same song as an example for somebody in a conversation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean obviously like valuing visuals is cool. And so years ago, if I was gonna mention like a movie, right, I might have the movie poster come up on the screen, you know. And that's fine. But I I I just I one day I was sitting there like, man, I would never do that. Right. If I was if I mentioned a movie to you, I wouldn't pull up the movie picture. Dune 2. Here's the poster. Yeah, the poster of Dune 2. It's like if you haven't seen Dune 2. But if I was talking about like a specific clip from something, I'd be like, here, like watch this real quick. 30 seconds. I'd pull up the movie poster just to make fun of the like floating heads thing that still exists for some reason. Like, yeah, I can see that. Um yeah, so that's an authenticity thing. Um authenticity, I think, is so those are our convictions. And I would you say authenticity is a conviction thing.
SPEAKER_01I think, yeah, because if someone with the microphone was being inauthentic, it wouldn't be like a hey, you know, try better at that next time. It'd be like, never do that again.
SPEAKER_00Like if I was But authenticity for us means you're the same on stage as you are off. Exactly. You might talk a little louder because you're projecting to the back of a room, so to speak, even though you have a microphone.
SPEAKER_01I very rarely prepare what I'm gonna say in a conversation, but I'm taking that with the seriousness that comes with that opportunity, you know. So it's like there's different elements that go to that.
SPEAKER_00Um but yeah, being authentic, teaching the truth, teaching the truth, being yourself, um not being yourself in an indulgent way. I think that's another filter for me with messages is ministry is never about indulgence. And so, like, okay, I I tell a lot of jokes. I was a class clown as a kid, I got a lot of trouble for that. Um I I don't tell jokes to feel the joy of people laughing. It's is this helpful? Does this set something up? Does this maybe ease the tension from what I just said or I'm about to say, you know, it's it it can't be this is my chance to live out my dream. You know, the same with worship. If you are a worship guy because you wanted to be a rock star and it just never happened, that's not the right filter. Right. Like I've always wanted to be on a big stage. That's not the right filter. But if you're a worship person because you're like, I have a a gift for music and I'm skilled as a musician, and I want to use that to honor God, great. Yeah. You know what I mean? So same thing with us teaching wise. And what that boils down to is the like the biggest the biggest red flag for me to ever give someone a chance to teach or is Like if they ask, can I do that? Um we actually had a guy, uh Meg and I were talking about from a while back who um just shared with us like like you guys some of them like you never let me give the message was like the phrase that was used um and it's like yeah that's not how this w works. Right. Like no one ever but some churches they there is an opportunity to grab the microphone during worship, you know, and that's maybe, but my point, this person was here and it was like they they almost viewed it the way they were talking about it, like I have always wanted to give the message, and you guys didn't let me do that. And it's like, well, I never I I'll say this, I never asked to give a message here in my whole life. I got hired here as the the youth pastor when I was um I was 23, it was 2007, and every time I ever spoke in the big room, it was because I was asked to. Yeah. It was never me being like, when's it gonna be my turn? You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01And so I've had to come out of the not wanting to. I know. Like being resistant.
SPEAKER_00You used to, I used to get like if I ever asked you, you'd be like, no. No, and I was like, all right. Um, but the same thing applies, like you you've been when you speak in there, it's not because you've been like, Justin, I haven't given the message in the big room in a long time, and I really want to, because it it's like I ask you. Sure. And uh yeah, and so the whole indulgent thing, I just share that because I don't do this because it fulfills my my dreams. Like I feel like the Lord called me into this, and a lot of it is really hard. Yep. Like it's not um yeah, which let's let's kind of shift a little bit and talk about message. What do you want to talk about? Message practic practicalities. I I for us let's let's start here. When do you write your message? Because that's what Okay.
SPEAKER_01So you called me on Thursday. You said, Do you have a back pocket message?
SPEAKER_00Which is just not something I think It wasn't the Thursday before the Sunday that you gave the message. It was a couple weeks ago.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it was the Thursday. Sorry, there's the Sunday that you spoke. Right. The Thursday before that you you called me.
SPEAKER_00So this was a week and a half ago. A week and a half. A week and a half. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Which is about as far ahead as I think. Aaron Powell, Jr. Three days longer than most message messages required. There you go. There you go. Yeah. And so you said do you have a back pocket message, which means like, do you have something that the drop of the hat you could share? And it's that's not really how we I how I've ever written a message.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think what I said was I was the used to be the youth pastor, and sometimes I would give a message, and this only really happened once I began to be like a speaker, because I was the youth pastor and also the main backup speaker for a while, which I think you're in that category, but I he the previous guy needed backup more than he also ran a company. So I was like, I was probably always on high alert to like just have a generalized message that could be plugged into the Yeah. And what that meant for me is sometimes I would teach something to the youth, and I would it would hit me like this could really work in the big room if I adjusted things. And I would just and then when when Steve would call that. Yeah. I mean, he called me, I had several times where he called me on a Sunday morning and said, Hey, I need you to give a message today.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for not doing that.
SPEAKER_00And and those were valid. One time he actually slipped and fell and like dislocated his knee. So that was it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you you stabbed your eye with a tree branch and I couldn't open my day, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and those members have but I just I had those filters in. But anyway, I called you a week and a half.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so I was like, I don't know, let me think about it. I think I said like I don't have that, but I wasn't saying no to the to the message. And then I just thought of something, you know, we've been planning in our normal rhythm. We do like a curriculum planning once a month, a couple months ahead. And so my normal rhythm for writing message messages is actually like bulk decide topics and scriptures. Yep. And then when the week gets there, I kind of tease those out and make it uh applic applicable to middle school and high school.
SPEAKER_00You know the overall theme for over a month in advance. Usually you know the individual ones because you guys plan as a team. Yes. And then you wait until the week of to get into the weeds of that specific theme. But you at least know the direction you're going and you know, maybe some game ideas or things like that. To tie it all together, right?
SPEAKER_01And so um for the kids' curriculum for the three months, uh January, February, March, we had this general theme of because he is I am, like because he's the good shepherd, what are the things that have implications? Because he's the provider, what does that have implications on our identity because he's the king? Those are the themes. And I was just kind of not disappointed with anything that we were doing in the youth stuff. I just felt like there was more room to have that be more obvious and be more of like the theme. And so I just processed through that, um, took a little bit of notes down, and then on Monday, sat I always do this thing where I sit down to outline my message and get like the general structure, general scriptures. And I always end up just writing it word for word, like beginning to end. So I wrote that whole message on Monday. Like it was entirely done.
SPEAKER_00Um you were done Monday before the Sunday.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah. And so, but here's here's the other thing is like um I landed on the seven Iams of John because again, I can't just randomly teach things that I think are interesting from the Bible. I think I wanted to anchor it somewhere.
SPEAKER_00So you're like, might as well, I don't just want to pick which I am Exactly. I'll just do them all.
SPEAKER_01I'll just do them all and um you know, we'll go quick and it'll be uh interesting kind of message. And I ran that by you before I finished my outline because I didn't want to waste my time if you're like, actually, we're gonna do that as a series later.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that was next. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so Yeah, and I told you I thought it was great. I was like, just keep in mind that seven points. That's long. Do the math. Yes. You got about three and a half minutes per point, or you're gonna and you were like, Yeah, and you did a great job with that. Appreciate it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But uh had that written, and then I think it wasn't until Thursday or Friday that I typed it out. And the reason I typed it out is because I felt like it's more loving. I always handwrite my messages in the youth stuff. I just felt like it was more loving to the tech team to have to not expect them to read your handwriting.
SPEAKER_00To read my handwriting. Because you don't have a tech team. No, I run you know, room. I did it the same way. In youth, it's a little simpler in the setup, yeah. But you don't have to have a person following you along in a room that you can't see. Exactly. So when I'm on stage, the people that are in the room that controls our screens and stuff, they I they can't see. They're in a back they can see me via the camera, right? But I can't see them at all. So it's very important that things are signaled.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I typed it out, and then you had suggested be careful. And so on Sunday morning, I hadn't running through it. I don't know, do you practice your messages at at all? Do you like say them out loud?
SPEAKER_00Sometimes. So we'll we'll get to me in a minute. Yeah, well, I'm very weird.
SPEAKER_01I've gotten to the point where, you know, I don't think it's a skill thing, it's more of just a comfortability and authenticity thing that if I if I practice a message more than three times, it becomes a wood card. It's a script. Like I'm just performing it.
SPEAKER_00And it's you're well prepared. Sure. Which is there's wisdom in that. But uh it comes out, you could it's almost like you can do it, you could be thinking about what you're gonna do later that day and say it. Not not that you would, but I'm saying it's it's almost um disassociative. Yes. And that you're you're going into like an automated mode.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And in that automated mode, the danger is if you don't perform the script correctly, you skip major chunks of the script. Right. So I've had moments where my message, I had like a huge big portion of things that I wanted to talk about, but because I kind of like jumped around a little bit and hadn't rehearsed it by jumping around a little bit, I just forgot that and it gets it just goes off into nowhere land. And maybe the Lord didn't want us to share that. Like maybe I just didn't need to be saying that. Um, but I've found that it's just so much better if I can run through it once and go, does anything just come off really strange or wrong or feel really clunky? And then running through it once on Sunday just gave me that like ability to go like it was 38 minutes-ish when I ran through it.
SPEAKER_00Which means it's probably gonna be like 42 when I get on stage.
SPEAKER_01Well, I it's usually shorter, so I was you go a little faster when you're on the stage.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I was concerned about that, but um I almost always will have some random story that pops in my mind that wasn't in my notes that I'll be like, ooh. And uh that'll add you know, three or four minutes. So I've learned that whatever, if I ever do run through it, which I don't all do all the time, yeah, but if I do run through it, it's probably gonna be a little longer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so that kind of run through gave me the confidence to go, okay. Justin's advice was be careful with those seven points. It could be very long or very, you know, if I'm over rushing, very short, depending. And I was like, okay, it's about right, and we'll just rock and roll when we get up there, and cool. I'll just try to be myself as much as possible. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Try to be yourself. That's such a funny.
SPEAKER_00Well, try to be yourself with a lot of eyes on you. I mean, that's the hard thing is I think we all experience this growing up. Um camera voice. You know, like well, even just from a heart perspective, there's this concept like the imposter. Sure. It's pretty well known that everyone has an imposter version of themselves. And sometimes that comes out the more people are watching, right? You'll see someone like, Why did you you don't ever talk like that? Why did you talk like that? It's like, oh, I don't feel I don't feel confident in who I am. I have insecurities, and so I put on a persona when I'm in front of other people. And that's something very common.
SPEAKER_01And I'll say the most valuable prep that I can have, especially for big room messages, and it's it maybe I'm just so comfortable with the high school students that it, you know, I I know them, I've grown up with a lot of them, like I've seen them since they were fourth graders. So there's a different dynamic. But preaching to strangers or pre preaching to the whole church, the most valuable prep I can do is praying and just getting my stuff right and uh you know, asking forgiveness for the week that I had or whatever it might be. That's the stuff that it's like if I have a dedicated time before I go up there, I'm not um I don't feel that level of being like at war with myself because you're like you're always preaching to yourself first with the the truth that you've spent the week prepping.
SPEAKER_00A lot of times my messages are just like me punching myself. Like, yeah, I'm bad at this. Right. This is not me saying, here's what I've mastered in life. A lot of the times this is so challenging to me. And what if I actually just lived out everything that I'm you know, it's hard.
SPEAKER_01But you don't want to go up there that's going up there with an authenticity and an honesty saying, like, I recognize my failures here. You don't want to go up there with a hypocrisy that's just pushing your week down or pushing your sin struggle down to say, Well, I've got to do this thing, and I haven't dealt with any of that. And so you're pretend like I have. Yeah, you're coming out as uh that would be spiritually inauthentic, I guess. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I will say it like personally, I am very comfortable being an open book. Maybe to a point sometimes that is not helpful. Like I even I have a decision I gotta make with my son basketball team, and I was talking to a uh his high school coach, getting some advice, and I was like, well, maybe I have to say this to this coach. He's like, I don't think you owe him an explanation at all. I think you don't have to say him anything. And I was like, Oh. I was like, I actually tend to err on the side of sharing too much, if not anything else. But yeah, so um So prep for you.
SPEAKER_01You said you're weird. So that's my That's my general, like normal when I'm speaking in the big room message. Again, otherwise I show up on Thursdays and we've already curriculum planned the high the student stuff, and I kind of write out my version of it, tweak some things, add some scripture, take some stuff away, that sort of stuff. It's pretty chill on a normal week-to-week basis for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean the way that I approach a message is very strange, and I wouldn't necessarily tell like I would both I actually would challenge other people to do it this way every once in a while, try it. Sure. But also not. Like, don't because it's a lot of times it's what works for you as a you as a person. Um I don't write my messages until Saturday night. So that is when I write the message. Um I'm having heart palpitations now. Really?
SPEAKER_01I just we have different lives. So like you said, it it's what works for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that I will say that that is a the Saturday night thing is more of a last couple of years development. Um So let me let me backtrack. So I have a degree in communication. Okay. So let me explain. So because there's a story here. Communicate it. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Well, this actually, I was thinking about this. I have a degree in English, and just like I think both of this, like the skill set here, yeah, shapes the way we prep our stuff.
SPEAKER_00So I went to college and my my degree was in communication. Most of my tests were speeches, and we were taught a way to write out an outline for a speech. It's called a full sentence outline. I still I have every message I've ever given, maybe save for a handful, um, I have written a full sentence outline, meaning that it's in outline form, but I have written out every word that I intend to say. Yeah, and you taught me that.
SPEAKER_01I do the same thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's it's a helpful way to like, yeah. So that's an involved process, several hours of writing. Um so here's the way it used to work for me. Um I used to write try to write the message Wednesday or Thursday. That was my goal. So I do a lot of research and reading, and I try to write the message like Wednesday, so that I had more time to polish it. So my goal was write it as early as you can in the week, and then you have more time to iterate, polish it. I practice it, say it out loud, and I hated that, and I do that. But what ended up happening was two things very often. A, what you talked about earlier. I would have run through it so many times in my mind that it would feel a little bit rote to me. I was almost I was it was just uh I'm I'm I practice this in a room by myself. Now I'm delivering it in front of a lot of people, right? And I'm not really changing anything. And that's a different sort of a thing. Uh or what often happened for me was I would hate my message by Saturday. And there was a I'll put a little uh addendum. There also was this dynamic where I would always try to take Saturday as a total day off. Sure. But like I can't, if I wrote something on Friday, or if I practiced something on Friday and then Saturday didn't think about it at all, Sunday morning, I'm like, what was I it would almost bleed out of my memory. So I would have to practice it on Saturday night anyway, just to keep it fresh. So uh anyway, there was that. But the other thing that would happen a lot for me is I would hate my message on Saturday and end up rewriting it. Right.
SPEAKER_01Because still spending Saturday night working on it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I have kind of a personal thing where if I'm convincing myself that the message is good, it's not good. So there's times where I'll be like, no, I think that if, you know, P this will if I do this and if I find myself in that mental dialogue of basically having a conversation with myself to convince myself that this when I have a message I'm very confident in, I never do that. Right. So that's usually a big sign to me, like something pretty major is missing. And I I gotta go back to the drawing board. I have a phrase I've used with you before where it's right recipe or right and right ingredients, wrong recipe, which means you've got the right stuff for your message. You just maybe need to put it together differently. And I'm actually okay giving a message that has the right ingredients, but maybe if I could do it again, I I should have started with this and moved this. But if I have the wrong ingredients, exactly.
SPEAKER_01And that's why for me that that moment happens really early on in the process of like the ideation phase of like writing that first general outline of choosing scriptures and and whatnot. It's like I do lots of that's wrong. This is stupid. Yeah. I'm crossing this off here.
SPEAKER_00Now I will say I think a part of, and I'm a part of this filter for me too is practical. The way that our staff operates and my job here, I have my job parcels out into a few different things, right? Part of my job is is leading the church, which means overall direction, and that includes leading the staff. And then part of my job is teaching. And then another part of my job is just being a pastor, having lunch with people, going to hot. Like last week I did a funeral in South Carolina. This week I'm doing a funeral on Thursday. Um, I did multiple hospital visits last week. It's like that. So sometimes the way my work mind works is my Monday, Tuesday is very much like debriefing from Sunday. And I'm not mentally ready to fully jump into next Sunday until like Wednesday.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm laughing because there's kind of a meme between me and Thomas of like if you show up to work on Thursday, you're gonna hear the entirety of the message that it will be preached on Sunday. From me, just verbally processing.
SPEAKER_00You're working it out. Can I run something by you? What do you think?
SPEAKER_01So, what do you think about Philippians 1? That's probably true.
SPEAKER_00You maybe avoid church on Thursdays because I I am alone in the office on Thursdays a lot.
SPEAKER_01I work from Starbucks.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, that's why. To avoid message prep mode in my like You're in your mode, like my blinders are on. So here but here's what I've found. So the reason I write it on Saturday, um, and I believe in this, I don't put pressure on myself that like that every word that I say needs to be decided. Decided or or carefully and honestly, it would be different if I was uh writing a book. You know what I mean, or whatever. So so I give myself the freedom to, if every some once in a while something comes out in a certain way and I I go, like, oh yeah, I I probably could have said that better. Like, I'm fine with that. Now some people might say you're devaluing the holiness of the book.
SPEAKER_01Well you're also not accountable to you're accountable to the church and you're accountable to the board, but you're not accountable to a direct report that would give you a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00You should have said it this way. Yeah, that's exactly what I got screwed.
SPEAKER_01But so I feel the same way, even though I am accountable to the screen.
SPEAKER_00So here's where I where I'm at in that is I I believe the the structure I have in the message is I know, I start with scripture. What is the scripture teaching? And and usually what I'm waiting on until it hits, sometimes it's Friday, Saturday, is that, and I'm doing research. I'm not like waiting until Saturday to start prepping. Like I'm reading, I'm researching, I'm thinking. I spend a lot of time in my head. Uh that's the difference with me. I go on lots of walks, I do a lot of physical things. I have never been a sit-down-at-a-desk thinker. I that was hard for me in school. Um, I've always functioned better, kind of more active and all that.
SPEAKER_01So uh even in college, there are all my I mean, I did well in college, but like a lot of my friends were sit at a desk and yeah, you're like downing three audiobooks as the your prep for the the Sunday on Monday and Tuesday. Yeah. Which for me, if I listened to an audiobook like that, it would go in one ear, out the other. And sometimes it does.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, but my point is I I'm always I'm I'm mentally very engaged with the message. I'm just waiting until Saturday to put it all to let it like solidify it. So what I'm waiting on throughout the week is I want that thing, that that one thought that hits me. That sometimes I would say confidently, I think the Lord showed this to me. Sometimes it's like, oh, this is just a ooh, this is something, there's like a little nugget of I maybe read something or hear something, and go, Yeah, that's that's the thing. I'm looking for that one thing that I believe is so true that if the only thing a person took away from the message was that thing, they're good. And I'm not worried about like when I when you believe something that deeply, it's like, okay, I've deeply believe that Yoon sushi on exit 14 is the best sushi restaurant in Cherokee County. And it's okay if you don't believe it, but my point is I don't have to practice saying that statement. Right. I believe it. And I can I can talk to you about it and I can explain why. And you may not agree with me, but I don't need to like prepare like I believe I believe it with such truth that I can speak it comfortably with conviction. And if I can speak something comfortably with conviction and it comes out naturally the same way that I would that that's a big win for me. So I'm kind of waiting throughout the week until that thing hits me and I go, that's what the message about is about. Not the general topic, but that's the that's the thing. That's what I want people, and I want to build the message from that. I want to build it from that thing. And sometimes when I would prep prep it earlier in the week, uh I would have on Saturday some of it, and I just kind of add it on as like an but that's actually the main thing I want. So once I have that, I'm like ready to go. And then I sit down and I write out the message. And I again, I've already made notes. I earlier in the week, I've got stories that have popped in my mind. I often keep a little Google document of just sometimes it's all in here, and sometimes I'll, you know, if I know I don't want to forget that at all, I'll write it down. And so then I sit down on Saturday and I write it all out. And one of the nice things about that is that means that sometimes I'm up late on Saturday doing that, but I never skip the step of writing it. I don't, I don't go, well, it's Saturday, so I'll just make a quick outline. Like I I sit down and and my family knows too. Saturday nights, when you're a pastor, you don't tend to plan big things Saturday nights. No. Friday nights maybe, but Saturday nights we kind of leave as a as a fairly open.
SPEAKER_01Go to bed, go to bed, go back to bed. Go to bed at a good time.
SPEAKER_00Um so I'll sit down and write it out. Usually that takes me three hours or so to write it all out. And um, and the thing I love about it is that because I wrote it y last night, it's very fresh in my mind. So it tends to come out really naturally. As far as practicing it, um very often on Sundays when I'm saying it from the stage, it's the first time I've said it out loud. But people on the the back will tell me it's amazing. Like for them, they're like, I can't believe that it what you're saying is so close to the outline.
SPEAKER_01And it's because I've done this for 20 years, I've learned I've learned how to write the same as I'm you wouldn't uh go counter to yourself in your outline.
SPEAKER_00My outline, I don't have a different writing voice in my outline than my my speaking voice. So I kind of write it how it comes out of me naturally. When I get on stage, it's I want it to come out naturally, so it comes out naturally there. Sometimes I practice it, and I practice it for a couple of reasons. A, if I feel like there's a topic that's uh particularly challenging, I will run through the message. And usually what I do is I get up early on Sunday morning and I take a long walk in my neighborhood and look like a crazy person talking. But no one's out up that I'm so I'll take a long, like three, four-mile walk and I'll say it out loud quietly. And if there's a topic that I'm like, this is a really touchy one, I I want to hear myself say it and go, ooh, you know what? This might be a wiser approach. That's helpful. Um, or if I'm worried that it's gonna be too long.
SPEAKER_01Because sometimes I'll look at my outline, but this feels like I gotta run through this just to see where I'm at.
SPEAKER_00So I might decide. And when I get to that point, my thought is, you know, is oftentimes there might be a joke or a story that I go, is that really that valuable? Yeah, because I can jettison it.
SPEAKER_01If you want to add 10 minutes to your message, it needs to be a necessary 10 minutes.
SPEAKER_00So I'll do that. But we tend to live in the forty-ish to forty-five minute range for messages. And I we hit that pretty consistently. So um, yeah, those are the the messages that That's when I would do that, like run through it. But I don't rehearse my message. Uh I would say, let's say it's 50 50. Uh maybe even more like 60-40. I am not the first time I'm saying all of this out loud is when I'm on the stage. But I but I think for me, I'm very well prepared. Like I have thought about it all week long. Right. Um In fact, I'll give you this one little other filter. I would rather have a more well thought out but less polished message than a less thought out but more polished message. And so sometimes when I would write earlier in the week, it would be less thought out when I'd sit down and write it. And I'd spend way more time polishing it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the the good example of the polished thing is kind of TED talks where you watch them and you feel like nothing actually was communicated. Like maybe there's like a sentence of an idea within that TED talk, but you're like, But it was so slick. I feel like I that was I wouldn't have to be a little bit more than a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm like, uh-huh. But then afterwards, like I don't know. I couldn't tell you what the And I think there was a time about it's funny, I was talking even about 10-15 years ago in church culture at the beginning. I think there was a time when a lot of pastors were watching TED Talks and thinking that's how my messages should be. Right. And I'm I'm not like so I don't no one's ever asked me to give a TED talk. Uh yeah, so for me, I want it to be really authentic, genuine, and I want it to be really well thought out. I want to be able to say I have thought about this so much that I I believe it's true. I can speak it with conviction naturally. And I don't use notes either at all.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, I do. I use notes. But you you mentioned like I didn't look at my notes too much.
SPEAKER_00No, and the notes thing for me, I would challenge a lot of really good communicators that you that that's a crutch you don't need.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00And it actually in a weird way is a distraction. So when I say not having notes, I have all the scriptures that I'm gonna read. Um and so we use that on our mobile app. We put all the if you if you have our mobile app, you can pull up any message and read all the scripture that was in the message. I have the scriptures up with me, but I don't have an outline with main points or any. I am I am uh and it was what's funny is it's still gonna match my written outline. Sure. Like 90%. Yeah. Because I wrote it last night in a way that feels organic and natural. It's how my brain would flow anyway. So I get up on stage and it's fresh. And that might be your superpower.
SPEAKER_01It's how my brain would flow anyway. It might be your superpower.
SPEAKER_00What's that?
SPEAKER_01The no notes being able to fully communicate it the same way. I don't think I could ever do that.
SPEAKER_00You don't think so?
SPEAKER_01No. I don't know. Like if I made you not use notes. If you made me not use notes, I would just skip major portions of my message. And then I would just tell it in a different order because I'd be remembering it toward the end of the message.
SPEAKER_00That's so funny. Well, and again, different styles. That's why that's why I said earlier. I'm not saying this is the way you should do it. I I uh some people would accuse me of being like a procrastinator. And I kind of am. I will say, but I also know that the deadline is Sunday.
SPEAKER_01All all procrastinators know the secret of procrastination is that uh you still have to do it.
SPEAKER_00Still have to do it. But my point is the deadline is Sunday. Right. The deadline is not Thursday. So it's different for the worship team. They have a Thursday night practice and they have to have those songs picked out so they can practice on Thursday because it would be really unloving for our worship volunteers to show up on Sunday and not having been able to prepare because that's that's a different. There's like 20 people that have to converge together to make it sound good and work. But for me, the the deadline really is Sunday. So I don't want to live with some arbitrary pressure to have it done on Thursday. If it's not ready on Thursday, I mean, I don't do this. I have a handful of times. But I I have written messages on Sunday morning. I have had times where I've gotten up at three in the morning to write the message, and it wasn't because I was procrastinating, it's because I didn't feel like I had the right thing yet. And I just trusted that the Lord will give it to me. Yeah, and I think that's that is literally like once out of every 25 to probably even more like that's maybe like a once-a year thing for me.
SPEAKER_01I think both of them go to to toward this idea of leaving room for the spirit in whatever context of prep that you're doing. Yeah. Because what I love, my favorite thing is the collaboration moment of like discussing topics and discussing scriptures.
SPEAKER_00That's a big part of it too, is I'm thinking, I'm reading, I'm researching, and I'm talking. Like you and I will and you joke about Thursdays. I have I do like to verbally process, so sometimes I'll talk with you or Megan.
SPEAKER_01You get a phone call on Thursday from Justin. You will hear about the message. Yeah, you will. Oh, it's good.
SPEAKER_00No, honestly, though, thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01And if you ever want to reciprocate it, you know, I'll just in the kids' areas, we have to be much more planned out because we've got different levels of staff, different levels of volunteers. Sometimes there's volunteers giving those messages. And so it's much more than a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00And you have to have games and activities that actually apply.
SPEAKER_01That's a filter here.
SPEAKER_00We you have the same time period on a Sunday morning that we do. Um however, how long would you say your average junior high message is? Like, 20 minutes. 20 minutes, right? So we could do I could do a 20-minute message on Sundays, but church went in really early. And I do think there's like a people got up, they came here. And so you have to have kids have lower attention spans. So you have to have activities, games to sort of build around the theme of the message to fill up that time. I don't I don't have to do that. So I don't need to worry about well, the game team isn't gonna know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. And that's the that's the thought too.
SPEAKER_00I just want to point out like Can you imagine if we play four corners in the big room on a Sunday morning? It'd be it'd be fun. It'd be awesome.
SPEAKER_01But we we all of our games always have to, no matter how um how small of a tangent it can be. But we always have to be able to point to the game bringing it back to the message. Yes. The best one.
SPEAKER_00Well, we don't ever do games, it's just like a game.
SPEAKER_01It's always you know, sometimes we'll do like, let's go play kickball. That's different. But when it's in the context of the teachable moment and we're gonna sit and do spend time that we're allotted to do something, it's always gonna be as a prep to understand the the content of the anticipatory set.
SPEAKER_00That's the teaching term. Exactly. You're introducing the concept before you actually start in a fun way.
SPEAKER_01Um and so there's much more of a rigid system in place with like a chart and uh like a yeah, this here and this here. But I think in that collaboration, in the actual sitting down to writing it and in the delivering of it, there's always room. And I think all of the people who teach in the big room are or in the kids' areas have that room in their heart for the Lord to interrupt and say, you know, go this direction or lean into this. Um that as you're delivering it, it's um it's co-working with the Lord to deliver his message for what people need to hear rather than, well, I worked really hard on this, so sit and listen to me for 25 minutes, 20 minutes.
SPEAKER_00I knew what's funny is the most terrifying thing for me giving messages now is I'm thinking about you as the youth pastor, is like when I get asked to speak at an FCA at a high school, like I feel like I bomb. Yeah. Like I go in there and I'm just sort of like, hey, hey, young people. Uh Drake, am I right? You know, I I don't I don't do that. But my point is I actually have a lot of uh anxiety about those messages where in the big room on a Sunday, you know, it's like I'm fine. It's easier, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's also church family people asking me if I'm nervous. It's just I've been here for a long time, so it's it's pretty easy.
SPEAKER_00I don't get nervous at all on Sundays. I really don't.
SPEAKER_01Anyways, I think um something else I really appreciate was that day that you ended the message early. Yeah a couple weeks ago. Yeah, you you know planned too much for one message and realized timing-wise.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't know how that wouldn't uh either, because it was the same length in my notes. Like I said, my I don't use notes, but like my outline that I sent to the team. Because we I send that outline to the tech team so they have something to so they kind of know, oh, he seems he's two-thirds of the way done. Right. Because if I just sent them verses, those are helpful, but they don't have any context for how much this next verse might come really fast or if you can see more, you know. But uh anyway, I uh yeah, I don't know. But that one just I got toward, I looked at the clock, I was like, there's there's no time either. And I was like, you know what? Come back next week.
SPEAKER_01Well, and that's what I I I really appreciate, and I think goes toward the um point of church is like the point of church isn't the message platform, the point of church isn't worship in and of itself, the point of church isn't meeting a new person by itself, it's all of those things working together. And you were, as the leader, saying, My message isn't so important, and my final three points or whatever, however much you had left on that message wasn't so important to delay baptisms or skip that worship song that was planned or do any of those things. It's all of it coming together, and all of those things working together, I think, just create a really cool thing for cool for God's people on Sundays. Yeah, mostly Sunday and uh yeah.
SPEAKER_00The end. The end. Goodbye,