His Hands Church
His Hands Church
How Do My Kids Self-Protect?
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Hey everybody, and welcome back to a podcast about raising kids who follow Jesus. My name is Madison.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Megan.
SPEAKER_00And we both work at His Hands Church. You have kids. I have kids. We both work with the kids.
SPEAKER_01Yes, we're around the kids all the time.
SPEAKER_00And so we just thought it'd be really helpful to talk through some of the dynamics that come up in parenting and especially Christian parenting. And so today we are going to talk about how kids self-protect.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00What does that mean?
SPEAKER_01Well, when you're parenting, a lot of times you're trying to talk to your kids or communicate with your kids at a time when they are in like a self-protection mode. When they're trying to maybe get out of something or not talk to you about something or talk around something because they feel like if they came at it straight on, they might get in trouble or be criticized, chastised, punished, given a consequence. A lot of times parenting is is those things because you're trying to discipline your kids, you're trying to train your kids, and you do have to teach them not to do things. But kids don't like pain.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_01They don't want to be hurt. They don't want consequences. They don't want those things. And they will protect themselves against them. That's really normal.
SPEAKER_00So on the front end though, it might be helpful as a parent to kind of take stock of what you punish for. You know, like what are the things that that uh get a reaction out of you? What are the things that get like uh a consequence for your kids? Right. Because if those are out of whack, then even on the very front end, that self-protection might be turned the dial for them might be turned way up. Yes. Um, regardless of how it is, it might just be that they're always in that mode. Right. Um but I know you went through a couple of different modes at a recent class. What are the self-protection? How should we think about that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and just off of what you said too, some of the reasons our kids go into self-protection could be dialed way up way up because of things out of our control. You know, our kids can go through things that are traumatic, like divorce or sicknesses or things that we that hurt them.
SPEAKER_00A move, like a move across country or for work or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01Things at school, things in relationships with their friends or boyfriends and girlfriends, or things that they protect themselves from pain that we did not inflict upon them. Right. So self-protection can be dialed way up, not because of anything we've actually done, not because of consequences we're we're inflicting, just because life is hard and broken.
SPEAKER_00We're people.
SPEAKER_01We're people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and they run into people that aren't us that are hard. So um, yeah, we went into four different self-protection modes and and what to do with these as parents, um, helping our kids navigate the world. So um you can kind of think of self-protection as like a big hoodie that your kids are wearing around.
SPEAKER_00Like a snuggie.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like a big blanket.
SPEAKER_01And that when they feel pain or hurt or see that coming, they kind of cocoon into that, you know, snuggie and um try to ward off pain.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01So the first one is going to be the snuggie of performance. Um, and this this child is going to deal with hurt or pain or failure, because that can be a pain point too, messing up, failing. Um, and they are going to deal with that by achieving their way out of it.
SPEAKER_00Hmm.
SPEAKER_01And covering up pain or hurt or failure with all the gold stars. They're gonna find ways to um make up for that failure or hurt or pain.
SPEAKER_00It's usually like three times as big. Trophy. Uh, yeah, like where it's like I got one B, so I need to prove that I got four A's to say, like, hey, I'm I'm still okay, right?
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Or or man, that relationship really sucked. I'm gonna go figure out how to be awesome at this other thing. And so they're going to make up for hurt and pain and failure by achieving and feeling like a success somewhere else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And what do you do with that? Because it's yeah, it's probably hard to even see. Well, it's you might be able to see it, but it's also like, but I like that they're succeeding.
SPEAKER_01Right. They look really successful. It can look really good.
SPEAKER_00To celebrate them. So how do you discern, like, hey, this is an unhealthy pattern rather than just like, hey, they're doing well at their school?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I've noticed because I have a child that's like this. One of the red flags that you can kind of see is that they will profusely apologize for mistakes that aren't really that large. And they also can kind of preemptively see failure coming, like, or or feel like failure might be on the horizon. They're, they're, they have a situation where they feel like they might fail. So to self-protect, it's almost like they preemptively zip up the hoodie, to self-protect from that failure, failure, they'll let you know, like, hey, I just want to let you know I really studied hard for this test and it's gonna be really hard. And everyone's told me it's gonna be really hard. So I just want to let you know. Like, they're letting you know that failure's on the horizon, it's not their fault if they fail. So if you have a kid like that who kind of like wards off failure and profusely apologizes for small mistakes, you have a performance-based kid. And it's not anything you've done. Like you may have you didn't program that into them. That's just their snuggie. That's how they that's how they figured out how to protect themselves.
SPEAKER_00So it does kind of give you a signal one of understanding, like, oh, my kid is in pain, like because they're giving you that like quote unquote red flag of saying, like, hey, just so you know, this is going on, I'm I'm working really hard on it. It's like, okay, so something's going on at school, something's going on with their friends, something's going on. You can kind of like use that as a signal to probe deeper, but how do you um kind of pivot that perspective toward toward Jesus?
SPEAKER_01Yes. So, so when you see that in your child, what what they're actually searching for is something different. Because when you see that as like, this is the wound that they have, if you want to think of it that way. This is this is where when they get poked at, this is what hurts the most. Um they're actually searching for something. And as a parent, you can recognize that when this is their pain point, when uh when performance is the way they're protecting, what they're actually searching for is value. They're looking for a place to be valued. And as their parent, how you can help that and help their this desperate search for achievement is to teach them that their value as a person is not in anything that they ever do, but is in what Jesus has said about them and what Jesus has done for them.
SPEAKER_00That's really that's really hard because with your kids, at least for me, there is like a conditional love. You're not a non-conditional love. Right. Like conditional celebration, conditional punishment, conditional it is like even running your house, you kind of have to have those like conditional, like you break the sliding glass door, someone, something's gonna happen because of that. Right. And so that condition, like having that be there, is so hard to, as a parent, step aside from that and say, okay, how do I remind my kid that regardless of the thing they broke, or regardless of the thing that is going on between them and their friends, like they are still valued, not just by me not being mad or or even me being mad. It's okay that I'm mad. Yeah. You still have value in the eyes of God. That's just gonna take like a constant like waterfall of truth.
SPEAKER_01It does, it does. And I think it's important for kids, especially, especially like in the teenage middle school years where that value, the world just chips away at it. For them to understand that their freedoms and like what they're allowed to do and what they're allowed to experience and consequences and all that stuff is different from their value as a person. Like to separate out their identity as a person, their value and how much they are loved and cared for is different than their ability to go to a party. Is different than their ability to spend 20 bucks or 50 bucks or earn an allowance, and all of those things, their earning, their grades, all of those things are periphery to their intrinsic value.
SPEAKER_00So then a conversation to help the kid through that would kind of be the who are you question. Yes. So like in a moment where, you know, you can open up with your kid, like, who are you? And if they're using words like, well, I'm a student, I'm a point guard, I'm a you know, like all the different things that they might need to identify as well.
SPEAKER_01I'm a I'm a this in the play, I'm a this, yeah.
SPEAKER_00To help them kind of step away from that and step into what Jesus says about us and and how precious we are and how valuable we are. I think that would be a good place to start to anchor that.
SPEAKER_01Yes, you are a saved and redeemed child of God. Right. That is who you are.
SPEAKER_00And you didn't think you didn't work to earn any of that. You might have worked to earn your spot on the team or to your your grades or the part in the play, but like your value in Jesus came from freely from Jesus. Right. Without you, you can't work to earn it and you can't work to mess it up.
SPEAKER_01Right. No failure is gonna lose it. Right. And so you don't have to like preemptively think about it. And and modeling that as a parent with you, that their value to you cannot be earned or lost. Yeah. Is really important.
SPEAKER_00That's great. What other kind of snuggies?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay. So that's number that's one of them. Um the second one is a deflection snuggie. It's like a shield snuggle.
SPEAKER_00I feel like as you're saying each of these, I'm like, what if this is my snuggie?
SPEAKER_01We kind of we kind of we we probably do all of these. Right. As as as adults, we've probably learned which ones work with which people. Sure. Um, but the the second one is deflection. So they're going to see hurt, pain, failure, all of these things as another person's fault. So it's like they're Teflon, like nothing sticks to them. Um, everything is everybody else's fault. So they're gonna make excuses. Um, pain, hurt, failure, they hide from it. This is the kid that when they're little, like they hide and make a lot, like they lie. Um, they're gonna hide the broken vase.
SPEAKER_00Like you find a bunch of candy wrappers in their bed. Right.
SPEAKER_01But it wasn't theirs. Right. It can't possibly be theirs. Even if they're the only kid that lives in the house.
SPEAKER_00You don't have a brother.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, they're gonna they're gonna be the kid that lies a lot because they can't have it stick to them. And and they're gonna zip up that hoodie so fast and they're gonna lie and lie and lie and lie because they would rather dig a hole of lies than feel the pain of it being their fault.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um and even if I think even as as a teenager and as you get older, like you know that one day that's gonna come crashing down. Sure. But it is like it's deflection, but it's also deferring it. You're like, Yes, I can just deal with the catastrophic consequences later.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we'll just we'll just continue.
SPEAKER_00But today it would be nice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Because pain later, that's fine. Whatever. Just not pain now.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha.
SPEAKER_01And this kid too. One of the the things you can kind of see in this kid is they will have a friend that they can always kind of set up as the one who it's always their fault. So it's not like they sit in their room and think about this. Like they're not.
SPEAKER_00You're not the mastermind.
SPEAKER_01No. But there's always like the bad friend that they always tend to have around. Why does this kid always have a bad friend? Because then they always have someone to blame.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they always have someone to deflect it on. And oh this they always, it's always their fault, and uh they always do it, and oh my gosh, it's always their fault. This is your deflection kid, and they will always have that friend because they having a fall guy is way easier than owning it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, does this kid it seems like this kid might also feel the pain more intensely because it's like you never experience it in the moment on like the smaller scale that you have to kind of wait for that big scale. So, how do you how do you deal with that?
SPEAKER_01So, again, what are they searching for? Like what is what is the searching for of this this pain point deflection? And this this kid is searching for acceptance. They are pushing off all pain because they don't feel accepted. Um they hide and they make excuses and they lie because they don't feel accepted as they are. So as a parent, you want to help by teaching this child, and it's intentional, you have to be intentional, that they are accepted by Jesus once and for all. That no no thing can be found out about them that will ruin that acceptance.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's almost like you need to intentionally, not in a mean way, but in like a loving way, like bring to the forefront the pain points so that you can say, like, hey, like you're I don't know, I'm not gonna say your kid your kid is ugly, but like this uh ugliness, like or like you a pimple on your face. Like it's okay it's okay to have a pimple on your face. Yeah. And let's talk through some of the ways that we can navigate the challenge when it's small scale, like a pimple, instead of pretending like nothing's ever wrong.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's that's tough.
SPEAKER_01You can't let their deflection be a constant thing. You actually, as the parent, need to find out, like you said, the ugliness that does exist and let them as a person still be accepted.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, to say like you're still part of this. Yes. You're you broke that thing, but still come over here and sit with me. You know, like that baseline acceptance. Yes. So this probably wouldn't be the kid that you're like, I'm banishing you to your room. You know, like obviously there's consequences and stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, banishing to the banishing to the room is probably not the consequence you want to give this kid.
SPEAKER_00It would be more like, let's work towards something or yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_01I think I think if you think about the broken vase with this child, like they broke the vase. The vase is broken, it needs to be fixed. You are not broken. Right. Like you are not banished. We are going to work on getting this situation fixed, but I love you and I accept you.
SPEAKER_00Here's a here's a bottle of glue, and you can sit over here while let's talk while you're I will sit with you while you fix it. Or here's the the lawnmower, let's go do yard work to kind of work this back so that you can pay for it or whatever it was.
SPEAKER_01Right, but they're probably gonna want your presence with them through the fixing is gonna mean a lot.
SPEAKER_00We'll validate their humanity. Their acceptance. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00That's great.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so number three. This kid is the retreat kid. They r will um run away from you. It they they retreat um and personally hide from hurt and pain and failure.
SPEAKER_00So this isn't like they're gonna put it on somebody else, they're just gonna completely avoid it altogether. Like shut down. Yeah. Like shut down. If you get called out on it, it's like nothing, and then you disappear.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Maybe as a four-year-old, they actually physically run away.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01But as a 14-year-old, they just fold into themselves. And um, they are going to tune out from all the pain. Um, the other thing that this child could do, if they're if they're maybe more extroverted, because an extrovert can actually do this, they will busy the pain away. So they will emotionally tune out all pain by just doing everything they can do to avoid the situation of the pain or the failure or the hurt. So they can get busy with everything else in the world and avoid whatever the hurt, pain, or failure is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. There's a comedian that I listen to that makes a joke about dads when they've reached their limit, how they'll just disappear into the garage to go tinker around on something. Like that's retreating. Yeah, right. Oh, I all of a sudden have to go fix this thing. He's like, well, why now? Like, like actually.
unknownYeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, to see that in your kid and to say, like, hey, is the sport, is the schoolwork, is the hobby or whatever thing that might be positive, is that actually them just completely avoiding the problems that are going on in their life? So so what do they need?
SPEAKER_01So they need security. So this kid is searching for security and and they can really, they're trying to separate themselves. So if you think about what's the opposite of being separate in a way, it's being secure in where you are. And they need to know that nothing can separate them from God's love because they are running away. They're trying to get separate, they're trying to get away from it, they're trying to retreat, whether it's mentally retreat, emotionally retreat, physically by retreat by going to all the different things. They need to know that they are secure, that they are safe and secure, and that they can be present and not have to run away. Um and you have to show them that they don't need to retreat. They're they're safe. They can be safe, they can talk about the pr the problem, they can talk about the pain, they can actually be present in the hurt and be safe there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's a hard thing to do. That's very, yeah. It's very hard.
SPEAKER_00That's like where with the pimple kid earlier, we could you can kind of name it, but that's where it's like actually drawing that out of them and getting them to be the one that says what's going on might be the the tough part.
SPEAKER_01But the that processing lids that we talked about in the other podcast. Um, and and meeting them at their language and trying to draw out the deeper thinking of what's going on, and then meeting them there with security. Because here's the thing as a parent, and this can be hard, that whatever comes out, you are not shocked, you are not gasping. Like because sometimes what comes out of my kid's mouth, I want to go, what happened? Are you kidding me? You've got to be kidding me. Like, I want to just but when you have a kid that normally retreats, when they do start to open up and they do start to share with you what that deeper thinking and processing is, you have to react with security. You are safe to share this with me. I'm not going to fly off the handle and dishing out consequences and calling the other mom and doing all you are you are the safe place to share the deeper thinking, and I will be the soft landing place where you can do all these things.
SPEAKER_00And even if it's, like you said, shocking, doesn't make sense to you, right? You can't fully process it, it's like, well, that's for you to to deal with behind closed doors.
SPEAKER_01I will go deal with it in a mature way, not in front of my child.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So get ready. If you're gonna you if you're gonna go into this with this child, you pray ahead of time and you say, I'm gonna be the secure place, I'm gonna let all of this come out and not treat it like an emergency in the moment. Let the things come out, be the secure place for them, and teach them that God is a secure place.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that might it might, I'm sure this is like always good for your kids, but to then take that moment to pray with them. Yes. And to say, like, hey, let's let's stop here. Like, of course, with performance and all of those would help to pray, but this one specifically really is just a jumping out like, let's stop and pray. Yes. And take that to the Lord when it finally does come out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's really helpful. Because nothing's gonna nothing I'm gonna share or your child is gonna share is gonna separate you from God's love.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Nothing.
SPEAKER_00Where can man go where God is not? Isn't that a psalm where it's like Psalm 139?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. If I made my bed in the depths of Sheol, you are still there. Like nothing, nothing will separate us from God's love.
SPEAKER_00So what's the last snuggy?
SPEAKER_01Oh, the last snuggie, and I sit to go, oh, because I have one of these kids. That's a tough one. But it's rage.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_01Anger.
SPEAKER_00That's a it's like a very spiky snuggy.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01It's like a porcupine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's soft on the inside. Oh, and then spiky on the outside.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Um so it's a little bit different than like deflection or retreat, because this is like aggression. It's it's a pushing off of um everybody else, but in an aggressive way. And um most of the time, and I would say all of the time, I'm not gonna say all the time because I don't know every child, obviously, on the planet, but um, it's a physical, like get out of my way kid. Um and they're going to um push away hurt, failure, pain. They want you out of their space and they want you out of your space physically gone. So they're not retreating into themselves. Yes, they are kind of like they don't want you around, but it is a physical go-away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's also too, I I could see it being like if I can cause it's a diff different kind of deflection almost where it's like if I can cause pain in this area, I won't have to deal with it in the real root area. Yeah. So if I'm fighting with my parents, screaming, screaming match, shouting match, slamming doors, all of that, right, then that's the problem. And we can kind of focus on that fight or that you know, this moment of me running around the house being crazy.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Rather than like, hey, what happened at school today?
SPEAKER_01Right. That goes away.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's completely gone.
SPEAKER_01I've completely avoided it. I have Self-protected from that other thing by being so angry that you now have a bomb has gone off and you can't focus on the other thing.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha. So what do you do with the rage kid?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's interesting because it doesn't seem to fit, but it is true that the rage kid is really searching for comfort. And it fits because the kid who is raging out is physically pushing away. And the need that they need met is actually physical. They need comfort. And it's a really hard need to meet when someone is physically saying, Don't come near me, and they actually need physical comfort.
SPEAKER_00So like a hug. It's like what you mean. Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That would be um great, but it's hard to do when they're like, get away from me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like that scene in Goodwill Hunting where he's like, it's not your fault.
SPEAKER_01I know.
SPEAKER_00Don't do this to me, man. Don't do this to me, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um But they're they're exploding because of something they're feeling, and their explosion is physical. The need that they need met is physical. Um but the the truth is that Jesus meets with comfort every time someone comes to him. You think about all the people Jesus physically comforted. Even the people in serious pain at their own failure. Um, I I think about the thief on the cross that said, you know, Jesus, remember me. And Jesus said, Today you will be with me in paradise. That was a physical thing that Jesus was talking about. Um He heals physically, he touches people that weren't allowed to be touched. He understands that we need physical comfort. And the kid who rages out needs physical comfort. And as a parent, you want to leave them alone. Like leave them alone, let them calm down. There is that to it, but knowing that there is a key, like an unlocking key to their physical comfort that they do need.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it might be that one, you you pray to the Lord to give you strength to do that, because not everyone's super wired to be that like physical comforter. Yeah. And two, pray to the Lord to kind of stand in the gap where you can't. Right. Because there might be like, okay, this has just exploded beyond me going to give you a hug. Right. Or me like sitting by you or watching a movie with you, like this is just like you need you're in your room tonight, I'm out here. Yeah. And then take that time to say, like, Lord, as you comforted the person on the cross, as you've comforted this person, like, please comfort, comfort them.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And understanding too that physical comfort can be other things, like making their favorite meal. Um, you know, sometimes I make my kids' favorite muffin and I pick the flavor of muffin of the kid that's raged out that day. And I know, I know that when they come home from school and they smell that muffin, that's something that will physically comfort them and will bridge the gap just a little bit for me to have a moment with that kid. So um there's other ways to physically comfort besides like a hug, but just thinking about like physical tactile things are important to that kid and they need comfort.
SPEAKER_00That's great. And so with all of these, it's like just acknowledging that they do have a need there. Yes. Kind of taking a step back to say, like, hey, the way they're coping with that need might be unhealthy. Yeah. Even if it looks healthy, you know, like it's it's easy to celebrate, or maybe there's not conflict if they're avoiding it, or whatever it is, because you kind of register. I think as parents, like I register the screaming and pushback as conflict. It's harder to register the you're in your room by yourself as conflict. Right. And so to just register that and say, like, hey, that's what they're doing to self-protect. And there are a bunch of different ways to to step in and be Jesus to them.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and to see that self-protection as actually the expression of a need and a moment to teach them how Jesus meets our needs.
SPEAKER_00That's great. Yeah. Thanks, Megan.
unknownYeah.